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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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731 for the 9th of October 2022 Richard

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Saunders coming to you from a very wet

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rain rain rain rain rain

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Sydney Australia in fact a lot of the

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East Coast of Australia is experiencing

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lots of rain emergencies flooding wow

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lots of it but what's coming up on the

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skeptic Zone podcast this week we speak

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to my friends my good friends I've never

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met who I'll be meeting soon from the

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European Skeptics podcast the real ESP

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experience pontus Andres and Anika join

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me and special guest

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and special guest you'll hear who that

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is soon as we discuss their upcoming

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trip to Australia to speak at skepticon

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2022 in Canberra and that will be at the

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beginning of December always a pleasure

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to catch up with the ESP

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following that it's a little look at

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some strange predictions made way back

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in 1952

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about the then Queen Elizabeth II what

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were seers and astrologers predicting

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for the queen way back in 1952 and did

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it come true then we have the Australian

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septic's newsletter written by Tim

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Mendham and this week read by me as

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Adrian is taking some well-deserved time

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off than to round off the show in the

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Trove segment we have an interesting

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item written in 1979 from a Canadian

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newspaper the Winnipeg Free Press all

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about psychic surgery and Canadians

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going off to the Philippines

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in the desperate hope of a cure for

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their various diseases

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so no matter where you are around the

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world I hope you have found some time to

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get out and get a bit of a walk in

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a nice walk

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and a lot of people listen to the

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skeptic Zone while they're doing their

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exercise walks

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even me even me the skeptic Zone and

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other podcasts I listen to as I'm

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walking around it's quite strange when I

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listen back to the skeptic Zone because

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quite often I will learn more listening

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to it back once it's all finished

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because when you're making a podcast

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when you're producing when you're

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editing lots of interviews and items

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you're not always listening to the

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content the flow of the content

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and later on when you're listening to it

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back you can sometimes get a better

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picture about what the interviewee was

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saying or the the item and so if you're

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listening to me now even if you're

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listening to me now on those newfangled

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bone conduction at headphones I think

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they've got these are the ones that you

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don't stick it in your ear or on your

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ear you stick next to your ear and the

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sound sort of travels through the bone

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in your head into your into your ear

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canal something like that that way you

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can hear other things around you at the

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same time

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tricky tricky if you're one of those

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people I really hope you're enjoying

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that experience

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what will they think of next but now

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it's time for me to run downstairs

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what's in the fridge leftover pizza

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[Music]

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leftover soup

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[Music]

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I know

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toast

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an old favorite well I do that I hope

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foreign

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[Music]

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my friends I think I have discovered the

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youngest skeptical podcaster that's her

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now her name is Luna and she's um she's

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just giving her comments about

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I'm a little bit afraid that we are

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totally

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ruining her because she has grown up or

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she is growing up thinking that a screen

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with Andreas infantus on is the most

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important thing in the world well that's

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goodness me okay it wasn't him

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no what okay music how do you people get

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anything done no I don't we don't yes

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yeah usually I'm folks all this giggling

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you have no idea I'm with Pontas Andres

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and Anika hello it's the ESP

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the real

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Skeptics podcast and of course it's

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really wonderful to catch up with you

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I'm seeing you all and the youngest

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skeptical podcast today yeah that's her

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I can't I can't wait till she gets her

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own show when we all retire right she's

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going to take over and she's gonna yeah

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we're already thinking of the succession

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here this has to go on for a long time

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it looks like things are in good hands

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the ESP podcast I'm I'm so pleased to be

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chatting to you all and real what's that

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oh she keeps oh okay okay yes yes I

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agree I agree just we'll just keep

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agreeing with Luna because

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you're all heading and this is

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unbelievable you're all heading to

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Australia for the Australian Skeptics

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National Convention I know you've been

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here before

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yes yes

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in fact a few times actually in 17 and

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19 and 20 and yeah now again and the

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last time you were here we were

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hopefully planning to catch up in person

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but you know it was still a little bit

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tricky with covert and everything so we

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didn't quite do that but hopefully

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okay okay take away the hammer I wish

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you could see what I'm seeing there's a

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hammer now whacking the microphone maybe

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she's disagreeing with us I don't know

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but it's so exciting a skeptic on 2022

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the Australian Skeptics National

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Convention what uh let me kick off with

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uh with you Andres maybe what do you uh

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what do you hope to do what what will

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you be talking about when you're here

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well uh we since we're gonna have a

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couple of events lined up uh while we're

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there uh we might end up talking about a

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couple of different things but during

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the Congress oh sorry the com convention

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convention yeah so Congress convention

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meeting yeah

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so during the main event uh I will give

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a talk on how to um have an effect on on

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site um political decisions and how to

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how to influence decision makers in

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politics so that uh science and

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skepticism uh is a much more important

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part of those decisions and this has

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been a topic of mine for a while

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and uh we we did a whole panel

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discussion on this at the European

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Skeptics Congress and uh I think it was

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it was

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quite quite a good move forward so I'm

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I'm trying to give an overview of what

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we could and we should do about that

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that sounds great and pontus what do you

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hope to uh to do are you going to be

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speaking about something different

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yeah yes I will I will talk about

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Sweden's covid-19 response because

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there's a lot of well it was different

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it wasn't the same as in many other

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countries but there's also a lot of

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misinformation and disinformation about

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this around the world

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um get well during the time I got a lot

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of emails

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feeling sorry for me to have to live in

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a country that made such a mess out of

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everything I it wasn't really that but

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it was special so I'm trying to I'll try

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to sort out what was different why it

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was different and how bad was it really

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well yeah because we were getting a lot

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of news about Sweden during the pandemic

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you don't hear much about Sweden anymore

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it's amazing how the world has changed

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since well

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not even a year ago we were all in this

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crazy lockdown and things were looking

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completely different but things have

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certainly changed now we'll come back to

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uh Annika and Luna we'll try that again

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and what and um now of course yes as we

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were saying anything you've been you've

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been here before

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um what what are you looking forward to

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um well I think I'm looking forward to

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actually meet Australian Skeptics

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because so far I've only seen um yeah

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friends and families

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um family members of course who are also

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partly skeptical

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um but yeah I am looking forward to

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well I don't know if you have easy

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access to the stats I mean the

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podcasting service I use I can look at a

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map of the world and I can see where

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most people are listening to my show and

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I was just looking at that today doing

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some uh you know statistics and most

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people are from the United States

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probably because of the large population

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there but it surprised me that one of

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the top five countries uh that listen to

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the skeptic zone is uh Sweden

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how about oh really yeah I should do it

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in Swedish yes you should I can give you

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a crash course when we meet crash is

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right you're already yes you already

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know the hey son hey son that's right

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that's right then it's easy from there

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so I I was quite uh tough to see that

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but it's so much similar for us

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oh yes you have you have a lot of uh

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listeners in Sweden or Australia maybe

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yes yes yes uh both I think but uh

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Sweden is is right on top up definitely

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it's obviously the United States gives

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the largest chunk of uh of our listeners

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apparently uh but um yeah yeah Sweden is

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right up there

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and Germany yeah that's very interesting

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yeah I wonder I know I know this is

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great because

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you know we didn't have any real set

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topic when I started to interview you

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just about the convention but upon us

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can you give us any insight as to why

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the Swedish people might be more

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skeptical

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well I don't think it's just that it's I

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think it's also that sweets are fairly

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good at English so they listen to a lot

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of English podcasts entirely Advanced

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when it comes to technology and things

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like that so I think swedes listened to

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a lot of podcasts in all kinds of

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subjects that's interesting and and

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again big hello to all the Swedish

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listeners I I had the wonderful pleasure

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of visiting Sweden oh I hate to say it

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about 30 years ago during uh New Year's

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dark and cold and cold and cold it was

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it really was

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oh no now I wish you could see this

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everybody oh hello so Luna the Little

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Baby Luna has now got the earphones on

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hello hello Luna Richard hello

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is she screwing up her face I don't

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think this is a good good sign at all

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[Laughter]

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so when when you were recording the

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three of you

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well the four of you I might say when

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you're recording your podcast yeah

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um you do it like we're doing it now so

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you can all see each other when you're

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recording

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yes we do we do yeah and uh sometimes

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Luna is uh is there and she is uh

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contributing but then it's Anika's track

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is of course on a separate track so we

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can mute it I was and I think that our

277
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listeners have remembers we have we also

278
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sometimes we collect it and put it in

279
00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:07,320
the as the outtake of course yeah we all

280
00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:09,800
we all have a crunch

281
00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:12,360
all sorts of things are happening we all

282
00:13:15,050 --> 00:13:13,800
like to have outtakes and things at the

283
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,060
end of the show in fact at the end of

284
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:17,040
this show folks if you listen there's a

285
00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:18,480
few things that we recorded just a

286
00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:20,100
little bit before the interview which

287
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,690
have a listen to that well my friends I

288
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:28,079
can't wait to see you I think you're all

289
00:13:32,990 --> 00:13:30,720
going to be in Sydney

290
00:13:35,389 --> 00:13:33,000
goodness me I think you're all going to

291
00:13:37,790 --> 00:13:35,399
be in Sydney before the convention oh

292
00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:37,800
yes that's where we start that's right

293
00:13:43,550 --> 00:13:40,680
we start in Sydney then I think we go to

294
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,560
Melbourne and then Gold Coast and then

295
00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:45,600
Canberra wow you're gonna be the last

296
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:47,459
you're gonna be really busy I can't wait

297
00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:50,160
to see you I'll certainly be greeting

298
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:51,540
you here in Sydney and we'll have a few

299
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:53,220
beers and

300
00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:55,620
um Bend some spoons and and just have a

301
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:57,540
good time I think that sounds great

302
00:14:04,030 --> 00:14:01,279
sounds amazing amazing yes

303
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:04,040
and and then I will be there too yeah

304
00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:07,200
likes it too Luna like as long as Luna

305
00:14:12,889 --> 00:14:10,220
likes it then I'm happy ESP the ESP

306
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:12,899
podcast folks if you don't listen to it

307
00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:15,839
why not it's a one of the the better

308
00:14:20,569 --> 00:14:18,600
skeptical podcasts out there it's the

309
00:14:22,490 --> 00:14:20,579
European Skeptics podcast of course the

310
00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:22,500
real e ISP experience and I've been

311
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,380
happy to chat with the hosts of this

312
00:14:32,110 --> 00:14:27,600
wonderful podcast pontus Andres and

313
00:14:38,260 --> 00:14:34,850
and I look forward to seeing you soon so

314
00:15:01,210 --> 00:14:38,270
until then same here

315
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,220
[Music]

316
00:15:06,769 --> 00:15:03,839
did you know the European continent is

317
00:15:09,290 --> 00:15:06,779
home to almost 750 million people living

318
00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:09,300
in 50 different countries belonging to

319
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:11,100
an even greater number of ethnicities

320
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,560
and believe it or not only a handful of

321
00:15:17,629 --> 00:15:15,600
them list English as the first or at

322
00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:17,639
least one of the official languages and

323
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,260
there's an amazing amount of skeptical

324
00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:21,420
activism going on out there that you are

325
00:15:25,310 --> 00:15:22,980
not aware of because it's not in English

326
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:25,320
yeah because you know pseudoscience

327
00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:27,660
quackery and fake news do not stop at

328
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:29,760
Borders they get translated to other

329
00:15:34,009 --> 00:15:31,620
languages and transferred across the

330
00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:34,019
whole world so if you're interested in

331
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,540
weekly updates on what's going on in

332
00:15:40,850 --> 00:15:38,639
some of the countries here providing you

333
00:15:43,129 --> 00:15:40,860
with all the interesting facts news and

334
00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:43,139
even some skeptical history or if you

335
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:45,240
want to hear interviews in English with

336
00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:46,800
brilliant people you sometimes haven't

337
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,260
even heard about then what you need is

338
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,320
to subscribe to the ESP extra sensory

339
00:15:58,370 --> 00:15:55,199
perception you must be really wrong no

340
00:16:00,889 --> 00:15:58,380
the espsn the European Skeptics podcast

341
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:00,899
that's right and if you're wondering how

342
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:04,079
you can find us online go to the esp.eu

343
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,540
and you can also find us on Twitter at

344
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:09,360
es podcast underscore EU or you can like

345
00:16:13,310 --> 00:16:11,040
us on Facebook and if you want to

346
00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:13,320
subscribe do a quick search on all the

347
00:16:17,329 --> 00:16:15,060
intertubes for the European Skeptics

348
00:16:20,329 --> 00:16:17,339
podcast you'll find us on Soundcloud

349
00:16:23,569 --> 00:16:20,339
iTunes Stitcher Spotify and all the rest

350
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:23,579
the European Skeptics podcast the real

351
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:27,600
ESP experience I don't know how you can

352
00:16:45,470 --> 00:16:39,150
[Music]

353
00:16:47,329 --> 00:16:45,480
listeners will well remember the time we

354
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,339
spent on the skeptic Zone discussing the

355
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:48,839
Great Australian psychic prediction

356
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:50,820
project

357
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:52,440
which is still being talked about in

358
00:16:58,430 --> 00:16:54,420
fact my friend Rob Palmer will be giving

359
00:17:00,350 --> 00:16:58,440
a talk about this very soon

360
00:17:02,030 --> 00:17:00,360
and it's interesting to go back through

361
00:17:04,270 --> 00:17:02,040
some of the archives I've collected

362
00:17:06,890 --> 00:17:04,280
doing the project

363
00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:06,900
uh because you know my search was wide

364
00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:09,900
looking at psychic predictions and one

365
00:17:13,549 --> 00:17:11,640
of the ones I found

366
00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:13,559
which wasn't included in the project for

367
00:17:20,329 --> 00:17:16,260
a very good reason because it was uh

368
00:17:25,130 --> 00:17:22,669
in fact it was published in a magazine

369
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:25,140
or a newspaper called Labor call from

370
00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:28,140
Melbourne on the 6th of March 1952

371
00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:30,900
and it deals with Queen Elizabeth II and

372
00:17:36,529 --> 00:17:34,140
I thought with the recent death of uh

373
00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:36,539
Queen Elizabeth II it might be worth

374
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:38,100
having a look at what this prediction

375
00:17:43,310 --> 00:17:39,360
said

376
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:43,320
and the headline is is astrology a cruel

377
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:46,980
Creed or skilled art

378
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:50,160
there is at least one person who will

379
00:17:56,090 --> 00:17:53,520
dispute the claim of Dr C Irving Benson

380
00:17:58,490 --> 00:17:56,100
last week that astrology was a form of

381
00:18:05,090 --> 00:17:58,500
primitive religion occult Insidious

382
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:05,100
Creed he is serious d.f abacan of salon

383
00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:08,640
Salon of course now known as Sri Lanka

384
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:11,340
this gentleman has just announced to the

385
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:14,640
world that he can accurately forecast by

386
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:17,760
the Stars the prosperity of Britain

387
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:20,760
under Queen Elizabeth II although

388
00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:24,720
astrology may be an Insidious Creed the

389
00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:28,020
views expressed by abbakun are

390
00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:29,220
interesting

391
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:31,380
in a letter to the Sunday Sun dated

392
00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:35,600
February 10 1952 E4 tells that between

393
00:18:44,810 --> 00:18:40,740
1955 and 1958 Queen Elizabeth and Prince

394
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:44,820
Charles in all probability will reign

395
00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:47,760
from Australia

396
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:49,020
well

397
00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:52,860
that that's an interesting that's an

398
00:18:58,490 --> 00:18:55,700
interesting forecast for the then future

399
00:18:59,870 --> 00:18:58,500
albican writes it might interest you to

400
00:19:03,610 --> 00:18:59,880
know that I have issued the following

401
00:19:06,770 --> 00:19:03,620
exclusive prediction on November 16 1951

402
00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:06,780
and it was published in the times of

403
00:19:13,850 --> 00:19:10,020
Salon Sunday Illustrated on December

404
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:13,860
30th 1951 and the prediction is 1952

405
00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:18,480
will be a significant year as 1837 when

406
00:19:23,090 --> 00:19:21,059
Queen Victoria ascended the throne

407
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:23,100
the Royal House of Windsor now takes

408
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:27,360
precedence as the stars are weak for the

409
00:19:33,169 --> 00:19:30,720
Kings and princes of Europe along with

410
00:19:36,289 --> 00:19:33,179
this prediction I sent to Mr Victor

411
00:19:39,049 --> 00:19:36,299
Lewis the editor-in-chief the following

412
00:19:41,870 --> 00:19:39,059
for Australia 1952 will be very

413
00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:41,880
disturbing in many ways the royal visit

414
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:45,000
is in danger of being canceled now I

415
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:47,039
have the pleasure in forewarning the

416
00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:48,780
following in the hope that you will be

417
00:19:53,810 --> 00:19:51,240
pleased to give notice of it in your

418
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:53,820
esteemed Journal princess Elizabeth

419
00:19:59,330 --> 00:19:56,640
becomes Queen in the major period of

420
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,340
Venus and the sub-period of Mars the

421
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:01,200
beginning of a prosperous time for

422
00:20:06,049 --> 00:20:03,600
Britain Britannia will once again rule

423
00:20:09,289 --> 00:20:06,059
the waves engineering and ship building

424
00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:09,299
programs on a gigantic scale will be

425
00:20:16,010 --> 00:20:12,419
carried through to a successful end

426
00:20:20,029 --> 00:20:16,020
Commerce will expand Her Majesty's Reign

427
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:20,039
can extend to 36 years

428
00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:23,940
it did extend to 36 years and a lot more

429
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:25,020
after that

430
00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:29,120
but the best years for Great Britain are

431
00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:32,220
1968-1975 but as history recalls I think

432
00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:34,080
there were some very major uh labor

433
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:37,260
issues in that year British people might

434
00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:39,299
remember those years

435
00:20:43,789 --> 00:20:41,100
there were good times and bad times I

436
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:43,799
guess it goes on the queen landed at

437
00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:46,620
London Aerodrome at a most auspicious

438
00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:50,120
time when the Royal planet of Jupiter

439
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:54,360
was on the mid heaven in Aries the

440
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,340
ruling sign of England

441
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,080
I bet you didn't know that English

442
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:00,000
people listening I bet you didn't know

443
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:03,120
that owing to this for 16 years from

444
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:06,960
August 26 1952 Great Britain as well as

445
00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:09,480
Australia under Queen Elizabeth II will

446
00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:10,620
experience

447
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:12,900
an expansive time

448
00:21:18,049 --> 00:21:15,480
the planet Jupiter rules Australia

449
00:21:21,409 --> 00:21:18,059
I bet you didn't know that Australian

450
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:21,419
listeners the planet Jupiter rules

451
00:21:28,190 --> 00:21:25,620
Australia okay therefore between 1955

452
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:28,200
and 1958 the queen will in all

453
00:21:34,610 --> 00:21:31,440
probability Reign from Australia along

454
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:34,620
with the Prince of Wales to be Prince

455
00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:38,880
Charles from February 24 1952 up until

456
00:21:47,710 --> 00:21:43,500
May 24 1955 Prince Charles Stars seem to

457
00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:47,720
be predominant over Australia and Salon

458
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:50,580
an early visit to Australia by the queen

459
00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:53,280
and the prince can therefore be

460
00:22:00,049 --> 00:21:56,280
anticipated in all probability it will

461
00:22:03,649 --> 00:22:00,059
occur in the first half of 1953.

462
00:22:06,370 --> 00:22:03,659
so there we go an odd find and I think

463
00:22:08,690 --> 00:22:06,380
it just illustrates once again that

464
00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:08,700
thousands of predictions are published

465
00:22:15,169 --> 00:22:11,580
every year while going back as far as

466
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:15,179
1952 and much much before then of course

467
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:17,100
full of all sorts of interesting bits

468
00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:18,840
and pieces they fill up in this case

469
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:21,720
from Two and a Half one two and a half

470
00:22:26,529 --> 00:22:24,360
what do we got here columns sort of

471
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:26,539
spread over a page a little bit

472
00:22:32,090 --> 00:22:29,820
it's interesting it mentions the queen

473
00:22:35,630 --> 00:22:32,100
Australia why not let's fill up some

474
00:22:37,730 --> 00:22:35,640
newspaper uh columns with this and in a

475
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:37,740
couple of days it's the chip wrapper or

476
00:22:43,310 --> 00:22:40,320
at the bottom of a bird cage and it's

477
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:43,320
long forgotten long forgotten until

478
00:22:48,169 --> 00:22:45,480
someone like me digs it up out of the uh

479
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:48,179
the archives but if you imagine the

480
00:22:54,289 --> 00:22:50,340
hundreds of thousands

481
00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:54,299
millions of predictions published over

482
00:23:01,370 --> 00:22:57,000
the decades all around the world

483
00:23:03,409 --> 00:23:01,380
and we recall that uh roughly 11 of just

484
00:23:05,149 --> 00:23:03,419
guesses come true when we're talking

485
00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:05,159
about psychic predictions

486
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:08,220
people can go back and point to the odd

487
00:23:13,190 --> 00:23:10,559
prediction and say there you go they got

488
00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:13,200
it right how do you explain that skeptic

489
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,419
you make enough predictions some of them

490
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,520
are bound to come true anyway there we

491
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:19,679
are just a quick scatter around some of

492
00:23:24,409 --> 00:23:21,960
the thousands of little bits and pieces

493
00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:24,419
and clippings and archives I've

494
00:23:28,909 --> 00:23:26,820
collected over the years many of which I

495
00:23:30,170 --> 00:23:28,919
used in The Great Australian psychic

496
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:30,180
prediction project

497
00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:32,940
[Music]

498
00:23:47,710 --> 00:23:34,500
foreign

499
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:47,720
[Music]

500
00:23:53,210 --> 00:23:50,820
Palmer I write for skeptical Inquirer as

501
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:53,220
the well-known skeptic this year I will

502
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:55,200
have the honor of speaking at scicon in

503
00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:56,400
Las Vegas

504
00:24:00,049 --> 00:23:58,380
my topic will be Richard Saunders Great

505
00:24:01,970 --> 00:24:00,059
Australian psychic prediction project

506
00:24:03,649 --> 00:24:01,980
which had the goal of reviewing a large

507
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,659
set of data to determine if there's

508
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:05,760
evidence that individuals claiming

509
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:08,400
paranormal Powers really to possess the

510
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:10,799
ability to foresee the future prior to

511
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,960
the conference I'm going to be doing an

512
00:24:17,570 --> 00:24:15,120
extended version of that talk via a zoom

513
00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:17,580
session that you can join this version

514
00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:19,380
will have details I don't have time to

515
00:24:24,110 --> 00:24:21,900
delve into its icon so did the psychics

516
00:24:25,970 --> 00:24:24,120
get things mostly right I bet even

517
00:24:27,409 --> 00:24:25,980
without any paranormal Powers You can

518
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,419
predict the answer

519
00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:29,039
the zoom session will begin on Monday

520
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:31,500
October 10th at 8 pm eastern U.S time

521
00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:35,039
that's Tuesday at 11 A.M in Sydney

522
00:24:39,490 --> 00:24:36,840
more information including the zoom link

523
00:24:43,210 --> 00:24:39,500
is available at

524
00:24:49,730 --> 00:24:43,220
recoveringfromreligion.org rfrx

525
00:25:08,570 --> 00:24:51,710
foreign

526
00:25:10,669 --> 00:25:08,580
[Music]

527
00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:10,679
now we have the newsletter from

528
00:25:16,370 --> 00:25:13,080
Australian Skeptics normally normally

529
00:25:18,890 --> 00:25:16,380
read by Adrian Hill Adrian's on vacation

530
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:18,900
lucky Adrian so this week you're stuck

531
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:20,100
with me

532
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:23,760
this is newsletter number 158 written

533
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:25,860
and compiled by Tim Mendham

534
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,000
hi all it says unfortunately we missed

535
00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:32,880
International ghost hunting day maybe

536
00:25:37,549 --> 00:25:34,980
that should be ghost hunting night which

537
00:25:39,649 --> 00:25:37,559
was September the 24th but we do have

538
00:25:42,350 --> 00:25:39,659
Halloween coming up which should give us

539
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,360
lots of ghosts to share around

540
00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:45,360
meanwhile it's sad to see Dr Ken Harvey

541
00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:47,159
one of Australia's leading campaigners

542
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:49,220
against medical woo

543
00:25:56,029 --> 00:25:52,080
stepped down from active duty

544
00:25:58,010 --> 00:25:56,039
what a giant in the uh sphere of

545
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,020
bringing quacks to account

546
00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,000
and don't forget this newsletter comes

547
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,820
with stories and links links that you

548
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:04,559
can click on to read more about each

549
00:26:16,909 --> 00:26:13,580
read on Tim mogadim will do just that

550
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:16,919
[Music]

551
00:26:21,010 --> 00:26:19,320
Australian Skeptics news face to face it

552
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:21,020
skepticon

553
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,360
2022 3rd and 4th of December

554
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:26,400
the annual Australian Skeptics National

555
00:26:32,029 --> 00:26:29,220
Convention skepticon will be held at the

556
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,039
National Library in Canberra on the

557
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:34,799
weekend of December three to four

558
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:37,919
and for the first time since 2019 it

559
00:26:42,409 --> 00:26:40,799
will be a face-to-face event

560
00:26:43,789 --> 00:26:42,419
the skeptic Zone listeners know we've

561
00:26:44,690 --> 00:26:43,799
been interviewing some of the upcoming

562
00:26:46,510 --> 00:26:44,700
speakers

563
00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:46,520
visit

564
00:26:50,269 --> 00:26:48,900
skepticon.org.eu for more details and to

565
00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:50,279
buy your tickets

566
00:26:54,890 --> 00:26:52,740
bent spoon Award nominations you've

567
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:54,900
still got time to put in a nomination

568
00:26:59,330 --> 00:26:56,880
for the Australian Skeptics bent spoon

569
00:27:02,269 --> 00:26:59,340
award one of the least sought after

570
00:27:04,430 --> 00:27:02,279
credits in the skeptical world or any

571
00:27:05,870 --> 00:27:04,440
world for that matter now just the other

572
00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:05,880
day somebody wrote to me an old friend

573
00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:08,100
wrote to me and said that the Audi

574
00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:10,200
supermarketer selling some sort of weird

575
00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:14,580
face mask with lights LEDs

576
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,580
with various claimed health benefits

577
00:27:21,730 --> 00:27:19,200
maybe that will appear in the bent spoon

578
00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:21,740
nominations go to

579
00:27:27,649 --> 00:27:23,940
skeptics.com.edu and look up the bent

580
00:27:30,289 --> 00:27:27,659
spoon if you have a individual or an

581
00:27:33,529 --> 00:27:30,299
organization maybe a media Outlet a

582
00:27:35,330 --> 00:27:33,539
supermarket chain who you feel are

583
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:35,340
worthy of the bent spoon and you can

584
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,900
nominate them

585
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,840
paranormal TV series rises from the

586
00:27:44,029 --> 00:27:41,039
grave

587
00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:44,039
article on the Resurgence of UK TV

588
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:46,740
programs and channels devoted to the

589
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:49,320
Paranormal the local office of

590
00:27:56,450 --> 00:27:53,100
communications of com has rules about

591
00:27:58,370 --> 00:27:56,460
programs exploring quote exorcism the

592
00:28:01,010 --> 00:27:58,380
occult and the Paranormal end quote

593
00:28:05,810 --> 00:28:01,020
stating that depictions of the

594
00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:07,909
as opposed to entertainment must be

595
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:11,100
treated with due objectivity and quote

596
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:14,520
and quote must not contain life-changing

597
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,039
advice directed at individuals end quote

598
00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:19,679
nonetheless some Outlets are willing to

599
00:28:24,649 --> 00:28:22,679
quote push the boundaries of ofcom's

600
00:28:26,390 --> 00:28:24,659
rules end quote now there's news here

601
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:26,400
about the Canberra Skeptics having an

602
00:28:30,649 --> 00:28:29,460
AGM a very important event if you'd like

603
00:28:35,870 --> 00:28:30,659
to

604
00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:35,880
would be the Canberra Skeptics website

605
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:37,500
or

606
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:40,460
you can follow the link at

607
00:28:44,529 --> 00:28:42,559
meet.google.com

608
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:44,539
wte

609
00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:47,820
hyphen z a r

610
00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:51,480
K hyphen ton but more news about that in

611
00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:53,220
the newsletter itself

612
00:28:57,470 --> 00:28:55,140
the September issue of the skeptic

613
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,480
magazine is out with a major look at the

614
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:00,000
mysterious and often secretive world of

615
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:02,760
organized exorcism in Australia

616
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,240
strange is that plus a review of the

617
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:08,640
involvement of a psychic in quotation

618
00:29:13,789 --> 00:29:11,520
marks in a recent court case on The

619
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,799
Disappearance of Lynn Dawson and the

620
00:29:18,529 --> 00:29:15,600
guilty decision in the trial of her

621
00:29:20,690 --> 00:29:18,539
ex-husband and indeed there's a link in

622
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:20,700
the newsletter where you can download a

623
00:29:24,769 --> 00:29:22,260
free article from

624
00:29:27,470 --> 00:29:24,779
the current issue of the skeptic

625
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:27,480
if you haven't subscribed yet it says

626
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:30,000
now is the time to do so go to

627
00:29:36,769 --> 00:29:34,020
skeptics.com and sign up for the uh the

628
00:29:39,169 --> 00:29:36,779
magazine delivered to your inbox and

629
00:29:43,549 --> 00:29:39,179
your letterbox

630
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:46,070
34 most haunted places in the world oh

631
00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:48,480
Adrian I know you're listening and but

632
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:52,260
you'd be uh into this interesting range

633
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,399
from a geothermal mud pool to the usual

634
00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:58,799
candidates the geothermal mud pool a

635
00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:02,220
haunted geothermal mud pool

636
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:04,620
that'd be a nice one to stake out but

637
00:30:10,330 --> 00:30:07,980
there's also one in New Zealand a pretty

638
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:10,340
impressive looking mock Castle near

639
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:13,380
Dunedin and in Australia's Port Arthur

640
00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:14,940
and Tasmania

641
00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:17,220
and also old Parliament House in

642
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:19,260
Canberra I bet there are lots of ghosts

643
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,159
of

644
00:30:24,590 --> 00:30:22,559
politicians and journalists wandering

645
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:24,600
around old Parliament House

646
00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:28,080
hurricane Ian conspiracy the hurricane

647
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:29,880
that hit Cuba in Florida was of course

648
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:34,610
it's three and a half minute documentary

649
00:30:40,909 --> 00:30:37,320
explains why it comes from Dane

650
00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:40,919
wigington founder of Geo engineering

651
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,340
watch and former solar panel installer

652
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:46,559
for some reason he keeps referring to it

653
00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:49,620
as hurricane i n

654
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:51,679
hmm

655
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:54,240
Irish psychic knows where Putin is

656
00:30:59,149 --> 00:30:55,500
targeting next

657
00:31:02,810 --> 00:30:59,159
spoil him it's Germany Irish medium

658
00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:02,820
Gemma Lonsdale somewhat incoherent

659
00:31:08,510 --> 00:31:06,120
spirit guide says quote I don't know

660
00:31:10,010 --> 00:31:08,520
what accents the spirit God uses so I

661
00:31:14,269 --> 00:31:10,020
won't bother

662
00:31:16,730 --> 00:31:14,279
and get preparation plans have a plan in

663
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:16,740
place if there is some kind of attack

664
00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:19,039
and being prepared

665
00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:21,860
sounds like Yoda

666
00:31:27,529 --> 00:31:24,600
although the dodgy language might be the

667
00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:27,539
sub-editor's fault I wonder the medium

668
00:31:30,590 --> 00:31:29,580
can't be sure exactly when this will

669
00:31:32,690 --> 00:31:30,600
happen

670
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:32,700
quote Spirits don't have the same time

671
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,520
as us tonight tomorrow a week from now I

672
00:31:40,250 --> 00:31:36,960
don't know how quickly this is coming

673
00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:40,260
but the guide is really pressing the

674
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:42,840
urgency of this end quote

675
00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:44,399
if they don't know what time it is how

676
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:47,340
can they this story appeared in the sun

677
00:31:51,769 --> 00:31:49,740
in the UK on the September the 27th so

678
00:31:54,490 --> 00:31:51,779
mark your calendars you'll be pleased to

679
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:54,500
know that Kenya and Australia are safe

680
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,159
yes

681
00:32:00,010 --> 00:31:58,080
listeners in Kenya

682
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,020
there you go

683
00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:02,000
misleading headline of the week

684
00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:05,460
paranormal investigators killed oh dear

685
00:32:09,529 --> 00:32:07,799
yes they were paranormal investigators

686
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:09,539
and no the deaths had nothing to do with

687
00:32:14,269 --> 00:32:12,240
the Paranormal sadly a case of domestic

688
00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:14,279
violence oh dear so why mention the

689
00:32:18,289 --> 00:32:16,500
couple's professions they had built

690
00:32:21,289 --> 00:32:18,299
themselves as quote electric voice

691
00:32:23,029 --> 00:32:21,299
phenomenon EVP experts end quote and

692
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:23,039
apparently made frequent appearances on

693
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,340
reality shows about the supernatural but

694
00:32:30,649 --> 00:32:28,080
while the deaths are a depressing

695
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:30,659
feature of society the headline use

696
00:32:36,889 --> 00:32:32,940
makes it sound like there was something

697
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:40,430
and finally psychic dog wrong

698
00:32:45,470 --> 00:32:43,440
JT the psychic dog would have preferred

699
00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:45,480
the North Queensland Cowboys to have won

700
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,299
the 2022 National Rugby League Grand

701
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,120
Final but once they dropped out he used

702
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,000
his puppy powers to pick the Parramatta

703
00:32:59,570 --> 00:32:56,880
eels against the penrith Panthers he was

704
00:33:01,490 --> 00:32:59,580
wrong dramatically this is actually a

705
00:33:03,889 --> 00:33:01,500
well-meaning article on an animal

706
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,899
adoption center shame they had to use

707
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,760
some shonky premise to promote something

708
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,200
so worthy

709
00:33:11,930 --> 00:33:09,600
well JT's failure mean that people go

710
00:33:14,750 --> 00:33:11,940
elsewhere to get a more trustworthy

711
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,760
psychic pet and that wraps up just some

712
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:16,320
of the highlights from the current

713
00:33:20,269 --> 00:33:18,600
Australian Skeptics newsletter you can

714
00:33:24,009 --> 00:33:20,279
get this newsletter delivered to your

715
00:33:26,029 --> 00:33:24,019
inbox every other week by signing up at

716
00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:26,039
skeptics.com.edu there's more to read

717
00:33:32,049 --> 00:33:29,100
here and don't forget each story comes

718
00:33:34,460 --> 00:33:32,059
with a link to the article referenced

719
00:33:48,130 --> 00:33:34,470
with thanks to Tim Mendham

720
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,140
[Music]

721
00:33:54,889 --> 00:33:51,120
the Australian Skeptics annual National

722
00:33:57,169 --> 00:33:54,899
Convention skepticon 2022 will be held

723
00:33:59,090 --> 00:33:57,179
on December 3rd through 4th the first

724
00:34:02,570 --> 00:33:59,100
weekend of December go to the ticket

725
00:34:05,570 --> 00:34:02,580
sales page at skepticon.org dot a u to

726
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:05,580
choose full in person one day in person

727
00:34:10,129 --> 00:34:08,000
or streaming options

728
00:34:12,290 --> 00:34:10,139
[Music]

729
00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:12,300
the event will be held at the National

730
00:34:17,690 --> 00:34:14,820
Library of Australia the theme is

731
00:34:19,490 --> 00:34:17,700
skepticism in a changed world and the

732
00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:19,500
lineup of speakers includes Claire

733
00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:22,080
klingenberg president of the European

734
00:34:27,409 --> 00:34:24,480
Council of skeptical organizations the

735
00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:27,419
hosts of European Skeptics podcast and

736
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:29,700
live stream Talks by Skeptics Guide to

737
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:32,399
the universe host Dr Steven Novella and

738
00:34:43,490 --> 00:34:41,270
there is also a wide variety of domestic

739
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:43,500
speakers including Major General Mike

740
00:34:47,450 --> 00:34:46,200
Ryan retired who will be speaking on

741
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:47,460
science fiction and Security

742
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:50,399
Professionals author David dufte on

743
00:34:55,490 --> 00:34:53,460
radio girl act Academy of sports

744
00:34:58,070 --> 00:34:55,500
psychologist Christine Dunn on

745
00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:58,080
superstitions in sport controversial

746
00:35:03,650 --> 00:35:00,780
author Clive Hamilton on being censored

747
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:03,660
and many more scientific and skeptical

748
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:04,800
topics

749
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,040
for full details visit

750
00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:09,839
skepticon.org dot a u

751
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:11,260
foreign

752
00:35:34,810 --> 00:35:33,290
once again to dive into those pages at

753
00:35:37,849 --> 00:35:34,820
Trove at

754
00:35:40,190 --> 00:35:37,859
trove.nla.gov dot a u and other sources

755
00:35:43,069 --> 00:35:40,200
from around the world in fact this time

756
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:43,079
our primary source will be a newspaper

757
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:46,740
from Canada but this week's topic is

758
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:48,960
psychic surgery

759
00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:54,240
a long time you don't hear about it as

760
00:35:59,170 --> 00:35:56,700
much these days as you did a couple of

761
00:36:02,030 --> 00:35:59,180
decades ago but people are still

762
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:02,040
performing it and victims are still

763
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:03,050
being fleeced

764
00:36:06,589 --> 00:36:04,160
[Music]

765
00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:06,599
and if we turn to the Skeptics

766
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,480
dictionary for a quick look psychic

767
00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:12,240
surgery and the words surgery are in

768
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:15,260
quotations psychic surgery is a type of

769
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:19,200
non-surgery performed by a non-medical

770
00:36:25,130 --> 00:36:23,520
Healer the Healer fakes an incision by

771
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:25,140
running a finger along the patient's

772
00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:27,540
body apparently through the skin without

773
00:36:33,530 --> 00:36:30,119
using any surgical instruments the

774
00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:33,540
Healer pretends to dig his hands into

775
00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:36,540
the patient's innards and pretends to

776
00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:40,020
pull out tumors using trickery the

777
00:36:44,750 --> 00:36:41,700
Healer squirts animal blood from a

778
00:36:47,390 --> 00:36:44,760
handheld balloon while discarding items

779
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:47,400
such as chicken livers and hearts the

780
00:36:53,569 --> 00:36:49,320
patient then goes home

781
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,579
to die if he or she was already dying or

782
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:56,040
to live if there was nothing seriously

783
00:36:59,930 --> 00:36:57,720
wrong in the first place

784
00:37:01,310 --> 00:36:59,940
psychic surgery is Big Business around

785
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:01,320
the world but especially in the

786
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:02,880
Philippines and Brazil

787
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:05,160
some people find it solace in psychic

788
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:06,900
surgeons and other Faith healers because

789
00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:09,720
they think the healers are Divine agents

790
00:37:15,170 --> 00:37:12,599
and there's more on that page I'll link

791
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,180
it in the show notes now there are many

792
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:17,760
things we know these days they're

793
00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:19,680
outright scams and frauds they have been

794
00:37:25,370 --> 00:37:22,260
investigated enough for us to

795
00:37:27,230 --> 00:37:25,380
confidently say uh one of them is people

796
00:37:29,930 --> 00:37:27,240
who claim that they're using psychic

797
00:37:31,250 --> 00:37:29,940
powers to bend spoons we know enough now

798
00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:31,260
to know that's a trick and we know

799
00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:32,940
exactly how it's done and we can see it

800
00:37:37,609 --> 00:37:34,920
being done and the other classic is

801
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,619
psychic surgery it's a trick it's a

802
00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:39,200
Conjuring trick it's sleight of hand

803
00:37:44,990 --> 00:37:41,880
Randy exposed it many years ago other

804
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:45,000
magicians have exposed it you can't and

805
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,880
this is simply a fact of nature you

806
00:37:52,970 --> 00:37:49,680
can't just put your hand through

807
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:52,980
somebody's skin take out organs take

808
00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:55,140
your hand out and leave no incisions or

809
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:57,660
anything else it's a scam it's a hoax

810
00:38:02,890 --> 00:38:00,240
it's a trick it's a fraud it's deception

811
00:38:06,770 --> 00:38:02,900
it's an act of a con artist

812
00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:06,780
and I'll start with something

813
00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:10,020
from the Sydney Morning Herald

814
00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:14,520
dated Friday the 1st of February 1985.

815
00:38:18,890 --> 00:38:17,339
in the stay in touch page and the legal

816
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:18,900
precedence

817
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:21,180
says here two members of the Australian

818
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:23,880
skeptic Society who set out to prove a

819
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,660
Filipino psychic surgeon was a fraud got

820
00:38:32,329 --> 00:38:29,520
a shock this week when a Melbourne

821
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,339
magistrate dismissed charges of

822
00:38:37,490 --> 00:38:34,560
obtaining money by deception against the

823
00:38:38,930 --> 00:38:37,500
Healer in Box Hill Court Lawrence

824
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:38,940
kitchen

825
00:38:44,510 --> 00:38:42,060
44 of East Doncaster had been charged

826
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:44,520
with obtaining thirty dollars by

827
00:38:50,510 --> 00:38:47,460
deception Ramen Lopez representing Mr

828
00:38:53,690 --> 00:38:50,520
kitchen said the skeptic Society members

829
00:38:56,210 --> 00:38:53,700
had not been deceived because they had

830
00:38:59,150 --> 00:38:56,220
expected to receive psychic surgery

831
00:39:00,890 --> 00:38:59,160
quote which by definition involves a

832
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:00,900
fraud end quote

833
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:03,660
quote the two people got what they asked

834
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:06,900
for and quote Mr Lopez said the

835
00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:10,560
magistrate Lionel Wilton Smith said he

836
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:13,560
was satisfied that what was known as

837
00:39:18,829 --> 00:39:16,079
psychic surgery had been performed on

838
00:39:20,569 --> 00:39:18,839
the two Skeptics but not that there had

839
00:39:24,370 --> 00:39:20,579
been a deception

840
00:39:27,230 --> 00:39:24,380
wow I think his honor missed the point

841
00:39:29,569 --> 00:39:27,240
all those years ago in the early 40

842
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:29,579
years ago but now let's turn to the

843
00:39:35,470 --> 00:39:31,980
pages of the Winnipeg Free Press from

844
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:35,480
Canada dated the 15th of February

845
00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:40,500
1979 and the story is psychic surgeons

846
00:39:47,150 --> 00:39:45,240
selling Miracles and that's a question

847
00:39:50,030 --> 00:39:47,160
and this is a story by Andy Blick

848
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,040
spelled p-l-i-c-q

849
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:53,280
a small group of manitobans boarded a

850
00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:55,320
plane Wednesday and set up for the

851
00:40:00,530 --> 00:39:58,500
Philippines in search of a miracle the

852
00:40:04,430 --> 00:40:00,540
members of the group are seeking healing

853
00:40:07,069 --> 00:40:04,440
by psychic surgeons who claim their

854
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:07,079
treatments begin when they plunge their

855
00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:09,920
hands through skin and then perform

856
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:14,780
surgery without anesthetic SCAR or pain

857
00:40:20,750 --> 00:40:18,000
and despite warnings by doctors and the

858
00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:20,760
disappointment by some manitobans who

859
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:22,740
have made the trip in the past two years

860
00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:24,900
members of the group are convinced

861
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:26,940
they'll be helped

862
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:29,280
reports of healings by psychic surgeons

863
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,720
in the Philippines have been spread

864
00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:33,000
quickly partly because of stories of

865
00:40:38,990 --> 00:40:35,640
miracle cures brought back to Manitoba

866
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:39,000
from the Asian country by Lorne Magnuson

867
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:42,720
the nephew of Mabel Wagner a Vancouver

868
00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:45,660
tour guide Magnuson who once attracted

869
00:40:50,349 --> 00:40:48,300
140 people to a church Hall he rented

870
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:50,359
for a meeting to talk about the surgeons

871
00:40:56,990 --> 00:40:53,760
had little difficulty sparking interest

872
00:41:01,370 --> 00:40:57,000
in their claims that they work with the

873
00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:01,380
power of God since 1977 and that was

874
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:03,780
about two years before this article was

875
00:41:11,089 --> 00:41:07,680
written at least 170 manitobans have

876
00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:11,099
taken the Vancouver organized tours to

877
00:41:16,310 --> 00:41:12,780
the Philippines to see the psychic

878
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:16,320
surgeons Magnuson says a hundred have

879
00:41:21,890 --> 00:41:19,200
taken the trip from Selkirk alone as

880
00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:21,900
well an unknown number of others have

881
00:41:26,329 --> 00:41:24,420
traveled there independently of those

882
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,339
who made the trip many admit they are

883
00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:28,800
seeking Medical miracles to alleviate

884
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:32,280
suffering in the case of the terminally

885
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:35,640
or chronically ill it is a desperate

886
00:41:39,950 --> 00:41:38,640
attempt to avoid the inevitable

887
00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:39,960
death

888
00:41:46,849 --> 00:41:42,500
critics of psychic healers however

889
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:46,859
insist those who go leave with their

890
00:41:51,470 --> 00:41:49,680
hopes and money only to return with

891
00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:51,480
bizarre stories

892
00:41:57,050 --> 00:41:54,780
photographs kept in four scrapbooks by

893
00:42:01,849 --> 00:41:57,060
Norman yarish of Lockport from past

894
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:01,859
visits to see the healers show on one

895
00:42:08,510 --> 00:42:04,740
page blood oozing from a skin opening

896
00:42:09,470 --> 00:42:08,520
while a psychic surgeon cleans a saliva

897
00:42:11,329 --> 00:42:09,480
gland

898
00:42:12,829 --> 00:42:11,339
and indeed on the top of the page there

899
00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:12,839
are three photographs

900
00:42:16,910 --> 00:42:14,460
a little hard to see what's going on

901
00:42:19,010 --> 00:42:16,920
because they are black and white

902
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:19,020
but yes I can see that that looks like

903
00:42:25,790 --> 00:42:22,320
uh there's an opening in the abdomen in

904
00:42:28,370 --> 00:42:25,800
one case it says snapshots from Norman

905
00:42:29,870 --> 00:42:28,380
yarish scrapbook shows psychic surgeons

906
00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:29,880
from the Philippines and some of their

907
00:42:33,890 --> 00:42:31,260
patients undergoing operations

908
00:42:35,630 --> 00:42:33,900
operations and quotation marks the

909
00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:35,640
patients say there's no anesthetic no

910
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,980
pain no scars that's a little hard to

911
00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:39,839
see what's going on but

912
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:43,020
now I study them someone is lying on

913
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,520
their back and it looks like there's an

914
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:46,079
incision near the hip

915
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:49,079
possibly some incision near the throat

916
00:42:54,170 --> 00:42:51,960
and another one in the abdomen

917
00:42:59,210 --> 00:42:54,180
and when I say incision of course I mean

918
00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:59,220
it's uh it's the illusion of an incision

919
00:43:05,450 --> 00:43:01,680
we read on about the photographs on

920
00:43:08,089 --> 00:43:05,460
another page a man with his head bathed

921
00:43:11,150 --> 00:43:08,099
in blood is allegedly having a brain

922
00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:11,160
tumor removed while on another a tumor

923
00:43:15,710 --> 00:43:13,140
is shown being removed

924
00:43:18,430 --> 00:43:15,720
some patients swear they have been cured

925
00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:18,440
but doctors and others are universally

926
00:43:26,030 --> 00:43:22,740
skeptical Dr Ian Reed of the Selkirk

927
00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:26,040
Medical Center said he is aware of two

928
00:43:32,089 --> 00:43:27,780
cases where the psychic surgeon's

929
00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:32,099
Miracles have proven to be a hoax

930
00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:34,920
quote I have tissue that was supposed to

931
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,500
have been taken from my patient and it

932
00:43:42,349 --> 00:43:39,359
could not possibly have come from him

933
00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:42,359
end quote he said in an interview

934
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:45,720
quote they call it infantile fat tissue

935
00:43:50,809 --> 00:43:48,960
normally if you take a tissue you can

936
00:43:53,630 --> 00:43:50,819
specify whether it's from a domestic

937
00:43:56,990 --> 00:43:53,640
animal wild animal or human being with

938
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:57,000
tissue typing this tissue was such an

939
00:44:03,650 --> 00:44:00,000
immature tissue it couldn't be typed in

940
00:44:05,770 --> 00:44:03,660
quote Reed said quote it was supposed to

941
00:44:09,230 --> 00:44:05,780
have been taken out of a Rheumatic joint

942
00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:09,240
this other man in Winnipeg who is a

943
00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:12,599
diabetic was told to stop his pills

944
00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:15,480
and he got into trouble end quote he

945
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:18,180
said the tissue brought back to Winnipeg

946
00:44:22,849 --> 00:44:20,160
from the Philippines was later tested

947
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:22,859
for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police by

948
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:25,800
Dr William Parker the provinces chief

949
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:28,200
medical examiner in an interview Parker

950
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:31,380
said the tissue could have come from an

951
00:44:35,450 --> 00:44:33,839
infant possibly from an aborted or

952
00:44:38,030 --> 00:44:35,460
still-born fetus

953
00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:38,040
quote the only thing we couldn't rule

954
00:44:45,710 --> 00:44:41,400
out was very immature human fat tissue

955
00:44:48,829 --> 00:44:45,720
and quote he said quote if it did come

956
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:48,839
from Reid's patient it's normal

957
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,599
and if it is what are they doing taking

958
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:54,000
normal tissue out you can't rule out

959
00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:57,599
immature human baby fat I thought it was

960
00:45:03,530 --> 00:45:00,119
chicken fat to start with but it could

961
00:45:06,650 --> 00:45:03,540
well be human fat but from a baby say an

962
00:45:09,589 --> 00:45:06,660
abortion or something like that the

963
00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:09,599
success of these people depends on a

964
00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:11,819
little bit of quackery and a great deal

965
00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:15,000
of Faith from the patient end quote he

966
00:45:20,450 --> 00:45:17,880
said in a letter to read Parker wrote

967
00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:20,460
jokingly quote the removal of this

968
00:45:25,609 --> 00:45:23,280
tissue could only cure obesity end quote

969
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:25,619
patients who go there spend a couple of

970
00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:27,839
thousand dollars they go in spite of the

971
00:45:34,490 --> 00:45:29,940
fact their neighbors are saying you're a

972
00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:34,500
dummy said James Randy a founding member

973
00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:36,660
of the council for investigation of

974
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:38,760
claims of the Paranormal in a telephone

975
00:45:43,609 --> 00:45:41,640
interview from his New York office they

976
00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:43,619
have to come back cured they can't come

977
00:45:48,589 --> 00:45:46,440
back and say hey it was a trick I really

978
00:45:49,970 --> 00:45:48,599
was an idiot too full for that

979
00:45:53,390 --> 00:45:49,980
he said

980
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,400
Yari said Tuesday he would be among the

981
00:45:57,650 --> 00:45:55,200
group going to the Philippines Wednesday

982
00:46:00,109 --> 00:45:57,660
although his family refused to confirm

983
00:46:02,329 --> 00:46:00,119
his departure Wednesday night another of

984
00:46:04,490 --> 00:46:02,339
those going a Winnipeg woman who didn't

985
00:46:07,010 --> 00:46:04,500
want to be identified said she was

986
00:46:09,790 --> 00:46:07,020
returning to the Philippines because she

987
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,800
was told to do so by a psychic surgeon

988
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,240
on an earlier visit

989
00:46:17,569 --> 00:46:14,880
quote I would have been two years

990
00:46:20,510 --> 00:46:17,579
already in a wheelchair and quote she

991
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:20,520
said while insisting her arthritis was

992
00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:22,680
relieved by treatments in the

993
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,060
Philippines

994
00:46:29,809 --> 00:46:26,400
two more weeks

995
00:46:32,450 --> 00:46:29,819
quote I'm going again because he the

996
00:46:35,530 --> 00:46:32,460
psychic surgeon said I should have taken

997
00:46:38,510 --> 00:46:35,540
another two weeks treatment end quote

998
00:46:41,630 --> 00:46:38,520
while the elderly woman was reluctant to

999
00:46:44,510 --> 00:46:41,640
discuss her ailments and alleged cures

1000
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:44,520
of the psychic surgeons yarish was more

1001
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:48,180
enthusiastic quote he the psychic

1002
00:46:52,970 --> 00:46:51,599
surgeon healed me and I can prove it end

1003
00:46:56,329 --> 00:46:52,980
quote he said

1004
00:46:59,630 --> 00:46:56,339
following diagnosis in 1977 that showed

1005
00:47:03,010 --> 00:46:59,640
yarish had an enlarged prostate he had

1006
00:47:06,349 --> 00:47:03,020
surgery done by a Winnipeg doctor

1007
00:47:08,990 --> 00:47:06,359
about six weeks after that I was to have

1008
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:09,000
great Improvement and possibly even go

1009
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:11,280
back to work end quote he said

1010
00:47:16,670 --> 00:47:14,760
quote in six weeks time I was far worse

1011
00:47:18,349 --> 00:47:16,680
than I had been prior to the operation

1012
00:47:20,690 --> 00:47:18,359
end quote

1013
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:20,700
yarish said he had heard of the psychic

1014
00:47:26,510 --> 00:47:23,280
surgeons through the tour guide Mabel

1015
00:47:29,809 --> 00:47:26,520
Wagner and made a reservation

1016
00:47:32,329 --> 00:47:29,819
in Manila he said those on the tour

1017
00:47:35,329 --> 00:47:32,339
checked into a hotel and met a psychic

1018
00:47:39,170 --> 00:47:35,339
surgeon known to Wagner he said he paid

1019
00:47:40,130 --> 00:47:39,180
for a total of 34 healings each costing

1020
00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:40,140
him

1021
00:47:45,410 --> 00:47:41,880
seven dollars

1022
00:47:49,309 --> 00:47:45,420
seeing psychic surgeons for 17 to 25

1023
00:47:53,809 --> 00:47:49,319
days on his tour he claims his prostate

1024
00:47:56,750 --> 00:47:53,819
gland and a duodenal ulcer were removed

1025
00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:56,760
intestinal disorders taken care of and

1026
00:48:02,990 --> 00:48:00,599
quote tiny tumors and blood clots and

1027
00:48:05,390 --> 00:48:03,000
quote extracted

1028
00:48:06,829 --> 00:48:05,400
he also maintains cancer was removed

1029
00:48:10,250 --> 00:48:06,839
from his kidneys

1030
00:48:12,290 --> 00:48:10,260
read a colleague of yarish's doctor said

1031
00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:12,300
the apparent prostate cure can be

1032
00:48:17,329 --> 00:48:14,819
explained the inflamed prostate could

1033
00:48:19,089 --> 00:48:17,339
quite easily subside on its own and

1034
00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:19,099
would not show up in x-rays he said

1035
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:21,660
psychic surgeons also claimed to be able

1036
00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:24,900
to heal from a distance and yarish said

1037
00:48:32,270 --> 00:48:27,720
his wife's high blood pressure was cured

1038
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:32,280
in an quote absent healing end quote

1039
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:35,760
he said the psychic surgeon told him he

1040
00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:39,359
would quote send her out an absent

1041
00:48:45,470 --> 00:48:42,480
healing for six months and I'll cure her

1042
00:48:48,290 --> 00:48:45,480
right at home but try to get her out

1043
00:48:52,130 --> 00:48:48,300
here before six months are up end quote

1044
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:52,140
told to avoid x-rays when the psychic

1045
00:48:56,329 --> 00:48:53,760
surgeons had finished their work and the

1046
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:56,339
tour was ready to go home yarish said

1047
00:49:02,089 --> 00:49:00,000
its members were told quote this healing

1048
00:49:05,690 --> 00:49:02,099
will take place from three to six months

1049
00:49:08,030 --> 00:49:05,700
so when you go home don't go to work for

1050
00:49:11,390 --> 00:49:08,040
at least two months and under no

1051
00:49:14,210 --> 00:49:11,400
circumstances have any x-rays taken as

1052
00:49:16,609 --> 00:49:14,220
it will stop the healing end quote

1053
00:49:19,490 --> 00:49:16,619
however Reed said the psychic surgeons

1054
00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:19,500
also tell people if they see a doctor or

1055
00:49:25,309 --> 00:49:21,480
have x-rays within three months of their

1056
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:25,319
visit it will invalidate treatment quote

1057
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:28,500
he covers himself with in three months

1058
00:49:34,370 --> 00:49:31,680
most people would see somebody in

1059
00:49:37,490 --> 00:49:34,380
today's medicine the guy has a perfect

1060
00:49:39,230 --> 00:49:37,500
out end quote now I'll just stop here

1061
00:49:41,690 --> 00:49:39,240
and say that's a fascinating little

1062
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:41,700
insight I never realized

1063
00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:45,900
that um the charlatans would try to

1064
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,599
to put that condition on their victims

1065
00:49:52,550 --> 00:49:50,400
when they go home don't see doctors

1066
00:49:55,069 --> 00:49:52,560
basically don't don't have this checked

1067
00:49:57,050 --> 00:49:55,079
out yarish remembers from his first

1068
00:49:59,870 --> 00:49:57,060
visit of the Philippines that some

1069
00:50:02,870 --> 00:49:59,880
people were not healed quote I don't

1070
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:02,880
know what the reason for that was

1071
00:50:08,809 --> 00:50:06,000
whether they didn't have the faith or

1072
00:50:10,370 --> 00:50:08,819
whether there was some friction in there

1073
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:10,380
among the healers

1074
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:12,780
and I'll break in here once again to say

1075
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:15,359
another classic excuse

1076
00:50:19,309 --> 00:50:17,700
uh if you weren't healed if this didn't

1077
00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:19,319
work for you

1078
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:21,960
etc etc it's not the fault of the the

1079
00:50:26,270 --> 00:50:24,240
psychic or the Healer or the mechanism

1080
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,280
it's your fault for not being faithful

1081
00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:28,079
enough or believing

1082
00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:32,760
we read on quote there are 450 healers

1083
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:36,839
in the Philippines they claim only 26 of

1084
00:50:42,109 --> 00:50:39,720
them work with the power of God end

1085
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:42,119
quote the organized trip to the

1086
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:43,920
Philippines which includes tours to

1087
00:50:48,609 --> 00:50:46,079
Faith healers hotel and breakfast cost

1088
00:50:50,290 --> 00:50:48,619
most people

1089
00:50:54,589 --> 00:50:50,300
1798

1090
00:50:57,710 --> 00:50:54,599
but for an enterprising individual there

1091
00:51:00,109 --> 00:50:57,720
can be a saving a free press reporter

1092
00:51:02,690 --> 00:51:00,119
and I assume that means this newspaper

1093
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:02,700
who called to a guide Mabel Wagner was

1094
00:51:07,549 --> 00:51:05,280
offered a free trip for lining up 15

1095
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:07,559
customers in a telephone conversation

1096
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:10,319
Wagner explained how things work

1097
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:13,920
starting with a quote certified check to

1098
00:51:19,370 --> 00:51:16,500
a travel agency which handles the tours

1099
00:51:21,890 --> 00:51:19,380
Wagner said the address of the agency is

1100
00:51:25,730 --> 00:51:21,900
on a brochure available from lawn

1101
00:51:27,650 --> 00:51:25,740
Magnuson her nephew in Selkirk although

1102
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:27,660
psychic surgeons are said to work with

1103
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:30,000
the power of God and do not accept money

1104
00:51:34,370 --> 00:51:32,400
for their services Wagner gave

1105
00:51:37,250 --> 00:51:34,380
instructions for potential tour members

1106
00:51:39,410 --> 00:51:37,260
quote tell them to take at least two

1107
00:51:41,329 --> 00:51:39,420
hundred dollars and if they spend two

1108
00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:41,339
hundred dollars on the psychic surgeons

1109
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:43,740
fine if they don't spend two hundred

1110
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,040
dollars that's fine too it's not too

1111
00:51:52,430 --> 00:51:50,160
much money for your health we promise

1112
00:51:54,530 --> 00:51:52,440
them the best but we don't promise them

1113
00:51:57,470 --> 00:51:54,540
they can be healed because we can't

1114
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:57,480
promise that and quote she added one

1115
00:52:02,329 --> 00:52:00,000
Selkirk man said that while he is

1116
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,339
convinced the psychic surgeons cured his

1117
00:52:06,650 --> 00:52:04,559
heart problems he wants other people to

1118
00:52:09,410 --> 00:52:06,660
know they can save money by traveling to

1119
00:52:12,250 --> 00:52:09,420
the Philippines independently quote

1120
00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:12,260
instead of letting people go on the tour

1121
00:52:18,829 --> 00:52:16,020
I got to looking for travel agencies for

1122
00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:18,839
them and showing them how cheap it is

1123
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:22,020
and quote he said quote people who are

1124
00:52:26,990 --> 00:52:24,480
sick are interested if you've got cancer

1125
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:27,000
you've got nothing to lose and quote he

1126
00:52:31,549 --> 00:52:28,260
said

1127
00:52:33,770 --> 00:52:31,559
I'll stop here again and say as Randy

1128
00:52:37,069 --> 00:52:33,780
told me many times these people have

1129
00:52:38,329 --> 00:52:37,079
much to lose they lose their money they

1130
00:52:40,430 --> 00:52:38,339
uh

1131
00:52:41,809 --> 00:52:40,440
they put their hope and belief in

1132
00:52:44,809 --> 00:52:41,819
something and they can lose all that

1133
00:52:45,770 --> 00:52:44,819
their families can lose money they can

1134
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:45,780
uh

1135
00:52:55,849 --> 00:52:52,559
proper treatments there's a lot to lose

1136
00:52:59,450 --> 00:52:55,859
we read on quote some people just don't

1137
00:53:02,510 --> 00:52:59,460
believe it and it's good they all don't

1138
00:53:05,450 --> 00:53:02,520
or there'd be a mad rush to the

1139
00:53:08,030 --> 00:53:05,460
Philippines you wouldn't get in when you

1140
00:53:09,890 --> 00:53:08,040
wanted to go end quote but according to

1141
00:53:12,410 --> 00:53:09,900
investigators the Philippine healers

1142
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:12,420
would like nothing more than a rush of

1143
00:53:17,089 --> 00:53:13,440
people

1144
00:53:18,650 --> 00:53:17,099
surgeons are controlled Randy said

1145
00:53:19,970 --> 00:53:18,660
psychic surgeons operating in the

1146
00:53:24,049 --> 00:53:19,980
Philippines are part of a business

1147
00:53:26,329 --> 00:53:24,059
controlled by a man named Tony agapau Dr

1148
00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:26,339
Augustine Roy president of the College

1149
00:53:30,589 --> 00:53:29,220
of Physicians and surgeons in Quebec was

1150
00:53:32,270 --> 00:53:30,599
once commissioned by a Montreal

1151
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:32,280
newspaper to investigate the psychic

1152
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:35,520
surgeons quote I tried to arrange for an

1153
00:53:40,609 --> 00:53:37,920
interview with Tony and quote Roy said

1154
00:53:42,770 --> 00:53:40,619
in a telephone interview quote it was

1155
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:42,780
not possible to see him unless we paid

1156
00:53:47,809 --> 00:53:45,359
quite a large amount of money end quote

1157
00:53:50,990 --> 00:53:47,819
Roy said he eventually gained access to

1158
00:53:53,569 --> 00:53:51,000
where agapal was operating quote I saw

1159
00:53:57,170 --> 00:53:53,579
very clearly there was no incision no

1160
00:54:00,650 --> 00:53:57,180
cut but I could see blood or red stuff

1161
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:00,660
looking like blood and a kind of cotton

1162
00:54:06,410 --> 00:54:03,900
to wipe the blood away and quote he said

1163
00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:06,420
quote I could see Tony taking something

1164
00:54:11,569 --> 00:54:09,839
out from the body and he just threw it

1165
00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:11,579
in a basket so I just went into the

1166
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:14,099
basket myself to take the cotton and the

1167
00:54:19,309 --> 00:54:17,760
blood funny enough the blood disappeared

1168
00:54:23,089 --> 00:54:19,319
within a minute

1169
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,099
end quote Roy said material taken from

1170
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:25,200
the body of the patient was

1171
00:54:31,790 --> 00:54:29,760
a plastic like stuff quote as soon as I

1172
00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:31,800
put my hands in the bucket they went

1173
00:54:37,309 --> 00:54:34,559
after me and I can tell you I didn't

1174
00:54:39,410 --> 00:54:37,319
stay there very long the next day I went

1175
00:54:41,690 --> 00:54:39,420
out of the Philippines because I didn't

1176
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:41,700
want to get killed end quote he said

1177
00:54:47,569 --> 00:54:45,119
quote the problem is the people I saw

1178
00:54:50,930 --> 00:54:47,579
there were chronic patients cancer

1179
00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:50,940
patients or patients with diseases that

1180
00:54:55,609 --> 00:54:53,700
can't be cured these people were trying

1181
00:54:58,430 --> 00:54:55,619
to sell hope to them that they could be

1182
00:55:02,270 --> 00:54:58,440
cured and quote he said

1183
00:55:04,809 --> 00:55:02,280
and the other pictures on this page are

1184
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:04,819
of James Randy

1185
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:11,330
Norman the Irish and Dr William Parker

1186
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:16,670
now if you want to see an example of

1187
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,720
psychic surgery it's not too hard to

1188
00:55:23,390 --> 00:55:20,640
find on the internet on YouTube just

1189
00:55:25,549 --> 00:55:23,400
type in psychic surgery but what I'll do

1190
00:55:27,790 --> 00:55:25,559
in this week's show notes is I'll link

1191
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:27,800
directly to the segment of the video

1192
00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:30,780
secrets of the psychics of James Randy

1193
00:55:35,870 --> 00:55:33,300
where James Randy appeared on the Johnny

1194
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:35,880
Carson show and did a live demonstration

1195
00:55:42,589 --> 00:55:37,040
of psychic surgery

1196
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:42,599
[Music]

1197
00:55:47,930 --> 00:55:45,599
and I can't help wonder and I suppose

1198
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:47,940
they still do it people from Canada and

1199
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:49,500
other countries

1200
00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:50,880
still would be

1201
00:55:57,710 --> 00:55:54,660
um possibly flying to the Philippines

1202
00:55:59,809 --> 00:55:57,720
or maybe covered put an end to that

1203
00:56:02,809 --> 00:55:59,819
temporarily I don't know

1204
00:56:07,790 --> 00:56:02,819
still flying over to receive this uh

1205
00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:10,270
[Music]

1206
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:12,540
psychic surgery just one of the many

1207
00:56:18,829 --> 00:56:15,599
interesting topics we can look up

1208
00:56:20,109 --> 00:56:18,839
pages of online newspaper resources like

1209
00:56:22,490 --> 00:56:20,119
Trove at

1210
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:22,500
trove.nla.gov dot a u

1211
00:56:27,470 --> 00:56:25,200
or possibly one no matter where you are

1212
00:56:31,150 --> 00:56:27,480
around the world because you never know

1213
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:45,910
[Music]

1214
00:56:52,490 --> 00:56:48,230
thank you

1215
00:56:54,049 --> 00:56:52,500
exam this weekend as ever as ever as

1216
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:54,059
ever thank you to those people those

1217
00:56:58,690 --> 00:56:56,160
wonderful people who contribute to the

1218
00:57:00,770 --> 00:56:58,700
skeptic Zone via patreon or PayPal at

1219
00:57:05,210 --> 00:57:00,780
skepticzone.tv means the show keeps

1220
00:57:08,690 --> 00:57:05,220
going in fact I just did my um tax

1221
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:08,700
paperwork just the other day and I was

1222
00:57:14,690 --> 00:57:12,240
glancing over the uh the incomings and

1223
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:14,700
the outgoings and things like that and I

1224
00:57:20,270 --> 00:57:17,040
can assure you that there would be no

1225
00:57:23,329 --> 00:57:20,280
skeptic Zone I'd have to uh

1226
00:57:25,730 --> 00:57:23,339
put all my podcasting equipment away and

1227
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:25,740
sell it on eBay but it wasn't for the

1228
00:57:30,410 --> 00:57:27,839
generous support of listeners just like

1229
00:57:31,609 --> 00:57:30,420
you thank you very much coming up on

1230
00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:31,619
next week's show we're going to be

1231
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:34,260
looking at some of the newspaper reports

1232
00:57:41,390 --> 00:57:38,640
of a very famous UFO incident here oh

1233
00:57:43,490 --> 00:57:41,400
when I say UFO incident it's um sort of

1234
00:57:46,849 --> 00:57:43,500
wrapped up in the folklore of UFOs here

1235
00:57:49,730 --> 00:57:46,859
in Australia are Frederick valentich who

1236
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:49,740
disappeared many years ago over Bass

1237
00:57:54,170 --> 00:57:51,359
Strait and that's the straight between

1238
00:57:56,210 --> 00:57:54,180
Australia the mainland of Australia and

1239
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,220
the state of Tasmania what were some of

1240
00:57:59,390 --> 00:57:57,839
the reports mentioned in newspapers at

1241
00:58:01,630 --> 00:57:59,400
the time and we're also going to look at

1242
00:58:04,010 --> 00:58:01,640
some of the conclusions reached by other

1243
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,020
investigators such as Joe Nichol and

1244
00:58:07,490 --> 00:58:06,240
Brian Dunning on this very interesting

1245
00:58:09,770 --> 00:58:07,500
case

1246
00:58:12,049 --> 00:58:09,780
also I hope to bring you an interview

1247
00:58:14,569 --> 00:58:12,059
with uh some of

1248
00:58:15,710 --> 00:58:14,579
these science communicators here in

1249
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:15,720
Australia the Australian science

1250
00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:18,960
communicators who are also who are also

1251
00:58:21,710 --> 00:58:20,700
involved in that great science outreach

1252
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:21,720
program

1253
00:58:26,089 --> 00:58:24,720
uh a point of science science in the pub

1254
00:58:28,130 --> 00:58:26,099
sort of like Skeptics in the pub

1255
00:58:30,349 --> 00:58:28,140
speaking of Skeptics in the pub speaking

1256
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,359
of Skeptics in the pub just in the last

1257
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:32,160
week Australian Skeptics here in Sydney

1258
00:58:37,730 --> 00:58:35,520
went back to the pub my word it was good

1259
00:58:39,890 --> 00:58:37,740
to be back in the real Pub to hear a

1260
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:39,900
real speaker in a real Pub and have a

1261
00:58:46,970 --> 00:58:43,920
real beer and our speaker was Xeon

1262
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:46,980
lights you might have heard of her

1263
00:58:51,410 --> 00:58:49,440
she's an advocate a strong advocate for

1264
00:58:54,349 --> 00:58:51,420
nuclear power

1265
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,359
and I hope to line up an interview with

1266
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:56,760
Xeon lights in the next couple of weeks

1267
00:59:00,950 --> 00:58:58,319
I think you'll find it very interesting

1268
00:59:02,930 --> 00:59:00,960
anyway it was fabulous to be back in the

1269
00:59:04,490 --> 00:59:02,940
pub and if you go to the Australian

1270
00:59:07,130 --> 00:59:04,500
Skeptics

1271
00:59:10,609 --> 00:59:07,140
um YouTube channel you can see that talk

1272
00:59:13,970 --> 00:59:10,619
that was given by Xeon lights in

1273
00:59:16,190 --> 00:59:13,980
Skeptics in the pub

1274
00:59:18,349 --> 00:59:16,200
but for this week with all that having

1275
00:59:20,569 --> 00:59:18,359
being said but for this week this is

1276
00:59:22,609 --> 00:59:20,579
Richard Saunders signing off from

1277
00:59:26,030 --> 00:59:22,619
looking out the window what is it now

1278
00:59:29,710 --> 00:59:26,040
sunny and cloudy

1279
00:59:36,289 --> 00:59:29,720
bright sunshine and dark clouds

1280
00:59:42,549 --> 00:59:38,270
I've been listening to the skeptic Zone

1281
00:59:44,809 --> 00:59:42,559
podcast please visit our website at

1282
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:44,819
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1283
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:48,000
contacts and to access the back catalog

1284
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,599
of episodes going back to 2008.

1285
00:59:57,049 --> 00:59:53,520
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1286
00:59:59,390 --> 00:59:57,059
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

1287
01:00:00,650 --> 00:59:59,400
Facebook page or leave a review on

1288
01:00:02,930 --> 01:00:00,660
iTunes

1289
01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:02,940
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1290
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:06,180
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1291
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,599
podcast is an independent production the

1292
01:00:13,370 --> 01:00:11,280
views and opinions expressed on the

1293
01:00:15,710 --> 01:00:13,380
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1294
01:00:17,470 --> 01:00:15,720
of Australian Skeptics or any other

1295
01:00:29,230 --> 01:00:17,480
skeptical organization

1296
01:00:33,049 --> 01:00:31,370
Luna has now grabbed the microphone

1297
01:00:35,950 --> 01:00:33,059
she's trying to eat it

1298
01:00:40,030 --> 01:00:35,960
and um

1299
01:00:42,890 --> 01:00:40,040
oh yes oh boy

1300
01:00:45,049 --> 01:00:42,900
that was hilarious I don't how on Earth

1301
01:00:50,270 --> 01:00:45,059
do you get a podcast done this is yeah

1302
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:50,280
well uh usually start your text Luna